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“Path of Purpose: Restoring the VA VR&E Program to Effectively Serve Veterans”

House Veterans Affairs Committee, Economic Opportunity Subcommittee Hearing

July 16, 2025 (recording here)

HEARING INFORMATION

Witness & Written Testimony (linked):

• Ms. Margarita Devlin: Acting Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary For Benefits, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs

Keywords mentioned:

• VR&E program, service-connected disabilities, meaningful employment, financial independence, fraud, abuse, wait times, counselor caseloads, staffing shortages, PACT Act, entitlement extensions, virtual counseling, program oversight, veteran reenrollment, adaptive housing

IN THEIR WORDS

OPENING STATEMENTS FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE

• Chairman Derrick Van Orden outlined the Veterans Readiness and Employment (VR&E) program, discussing its purpose to help service-connected disabled veterans gain skills and education for meaningful employment and independent living. He shared that while VR&E changed his life by enabling him to attend law school, the program has faced significant abuse and mismanagement, including excessive wait times and skyrocketing benefit costs. He criticized the VA's poor oversight, citing cases of veterans in the program for decades with benefits exceeding hundreds of thousands of dollars, and expressed skepticism about the new IT system, given the VA's history of IT failures. Chairman Van Orden advocated for a candid, solution-focused discussion, likening the hearing to a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" to address longstanding problems.

• Ranking Member Chris Pappas stated that while VR&E aims to help disabled veterans achieve employment and independence, the program suffers from concerning performance issues, including excessive wait times and high counselor caseloads. He highlighted that the VA’s recommended counselor-to-veteran ratio of 125 to 1 has been exceeded nationwide, with some areas reaching 204 to 1, and regional offices facing average wait times of over a month. Ranking Member Pappas argued that staffing is the critical factor for improvement, claiming that well-staffed offices perform better and that AI tools alone will not compensate for understaffing. He expressed concern about the impact of the VA's broader staffing reductions and advocated for addressing counselor retention and caseloads rather than imposing rigid time limits on veterans' participation in VR&E.

SUMMARY OF KEY POINTS

• Ms. Margarita Devlin shared her personal connection to VR&E, having started her career as a vocational rehabilitation counselor and witnessed the program’s positive impact on veterans. She acknowledged that VR&E’s caseload has increased by 52% since 2020 due to the PACT Act, resulting in counselor-to-veteran ratios far exceeding recommended levels. Ms. Devlin outlined the VA’s efforts to manage workloads, including deploying help teams, reassigning cases nationally, providing contract counselors, and utilizing tele-counseling, which have already reduced application backlogs in some offices. She committed to further improvements, underlining that the VA is determined to restore trust in VR&E and ensure veterans receive timely support and services.

• Ranking Member Pappas asked why Mr. Nick Pamperin, the executive director of the VR&E program, was not present at the hearing. Ms. Devlin responded that while Mr. Pamperin leads VR&E services, she was performing the duties of the Under Secretary for Benefits and oversees broader operations, including the regional and district directors who implement the program on the ground.

• Ranking Member Pappas then asked why some veterans remain in the program far longer than intended. Ms. Devlin explained that veterans may pause participation due to worsening disabilities, life circumstances, accidents, or relocations, and can return to the program when ready. She gave an example of a veteran who completed the program after a significant health-related break.

• The Ranking Member asked whether veterans are paid for the entire duration they are in the program. Ms. Devlin clarified that veterans only receive subsistence allowances while actively participating in training.

• Ranking Member Pappas inquired about the average months of benefit payments and reasons for exceeding the 48-month limit. Ms. Devlin stated that the standard entitlement is 48 months, but extensions are granted when veterans have serious employment handicaps that require additional training time.

• The Ranking Member also asked how counselors are assigned to veterans and what happens if a veteran relocates. Ms. Devlin said that counselors are usually assigned based on geography, but due to capacity issues, cases are reallocated to available counselors, sometimes across regions. She added that if veterans have difficulty contacting their counselor, they can call the main VA number for assistance.

• Rep. Tom Barrett asked for clarification on the 48-month eligibility window and how it is counted. Ms. Devlin confirmed that it is based on months of active participation, not calendar time, and veterans can take breaks and return if they have remaining entitlement.

• Rep. Barrett then asked about veterans who appear to have been in the program since the 1990s. Ms. Devlin explained that such cases often involve veterans cycling in and out of the program, sometimes with years-long gaps, which cumulatively appear as continuous participation in records.

• Rep. Barrett asked whether VR&E supports higher education or only skill training. Ms. Devlin answered that the program supports education up to the level needed for a veteran’s vocational goal, including bachelor’s, master’s, or technical training.

• Rep. Barrett also asked if VR&E programs must align with GI Bill-approved institutions. Ms. Devlin affirmed that VR&E tightened its guidelines to ensure only GI Bill-approved training programs are authorized, unless special approval is granted at the director level.

• Finally, Rep. Barrett asked whether automation and modernization efforts would reduce staff workload. Ms. Devlin confirmed that the new systems are already helping to ease workloads by improving processing efficiency.

• Rep. Morgan McGarvey discussed his bipartisan Focused Assistance and Skills Training for Veterans Employment and Transition Success (FAST VETS) Act. He then asked what counselors evaluate when a veteran requests a plan change. Ms. Devlin explained that counselors must review the veteran’s circumstances annually and ensure that changes are warranted to prevent wasting entitlement months, usually prompted by life changes or disability status.

• Rep. McGarvey asked whether the criteria for plan changes are consistent across regional offices. Ms. Devlin responded that while decisions are tailored to each veteran, the process depends on individual circumstances rather than geographic variation.

• Rep. McGarvey asked what protocols the VA would need if the FAST VETS Act passed. Ms. Devlin stated that the VA would develop procedures requiring counselors to document the reasons for plan changes, ensuring accountability. She agreed to provide a commitment to issue updated guidance and share redevelopment data with the Committee if the bill is enacted.

• Lastly, Rep. McGarvey asked how the VA is addressing counselor shortages and burnout. Ms. Devlin noted that the national caseload reallocation strategy is helping, and the FY 2026 President’s budget requests funding for an additional 403 counselors.

• Rep. Juan Ciscomani asked about wait times for VR&E appointments in Arizona and the VA’s plans to reduce them. Ms. Devlin reported that Arizona’s statewide average wait time had been reduced to just over 41 days, aided by national case reassignment and virtual counseling, though she acknowledged regional disparities.

• Rep. Ciscomani then asked why 45% of veterans re-enroll in VR&E and what that indicates about program success. Ms. Devlin explained that re-enrollment occurs when veterans experience worsened disabilities or can no longer perform in their previous occupation, prompting a new rehabilitation plan with a distinct goal.

• Chairman Van Orden asked what caused the VR&E program’s workload to spiral out of control in recent months. Ms. Devlin explained that the ballooning workload was primarily due to the PACT Act, which expanded eligibility and led to higher demand in states with large veteran populations.

• Chairman Van Orden asked if the increased workload had been anticipated during the PACT Act’s passage and if the VA now needs approximately 800 additional counselors to meet demand. Ms. Devlin confirmed that to achieve the recommended 125-to-1 counselor-to-veteran ratio, the VA needs 387 additional counselors on top of what is requested in the President’s budget, bringing the total staffing need to around 1,400 to 1,500 counselors.

• The Chairman asked how many veterans have exceeded 48 months in the program and whether anyone at VA has been held accountable for such extensive use of benefits. Ms. Devlin stated that she did not have exact numbers but noted that oversight has increased recently. She added that in some cases, large benefit amounts include costs like independent living adaptations, though clear funding lines between services need to be established.

• Chairman Van Orden questioned how the Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) rate is set and criticized the policy that allows veterans to receive higher rates by briefly attending classes in high-cost areas like San Diego. Ms. Devlin clarified that VR&E follows Chapter 33 (GI Bill) guidelines, setting BAH based on the physical location of the training facility, not the veteran’s residence.

• The Chairman asked what Ms. Devlin would do to fix the program if she had a "magic wand." Ms. Devlin responded that she would continue enhancing internal controls and holding leadership accountable, though she acknowledged that there is no simple solution.

• Ranking Member Pappas asked for details on how the VA reduced wait times in San Diego and whether virtual counseling has been accepted by veterans. Ms. Devlin answered that a dedicated help team of 11 top counselors improved San Diego's performance, combined with workload redistribution through virtual counseling. She reported no complaints from veterans, who appreciate the convenience and efficiency of virtual appointments.

• Ranking Member Pappas asked why staffing did not keep pace with enrollment increases after the PACT Act. Ms. Devlin explained that while the VA did some hiring, attrition occurred, and the prior administration prioritized hiring disability claims processors over vocational rehabilitation counselors. She mentioned that the field of rehabilitation counseling is not growing, which is why the VA created a vocational rehabilitation specialist position requiring only a bachelor's degree.

• The Ranking Member asked about the VA’s strategies for retaining counselors and preventing burnout. Ms. Devlin said that she convened field leaders to provide recommendations on program improvements and retention strategies, and she emphasized the importance of hearing directly from field staff.

• Chairman Van Orden asked for clarification on the difference between vocational rehabilitation specialists and counselors. Ms. Devlin explained that counselors hold master’s degrees and can make entitlement decisions and develop comprehensive plans, whereas specialists have bachelor's degrees and support veterans through their plans but cannot make entitlement decisions.

• The Chairman requested data on the number and ratio of specialists to counselors and questioned the necessity of requiring master’s degrees, given the program’s 45% re-enrollment rate. Ms. Devlin committed to providing the requested data and noted that a master’s degree equips counselors with expertise in disabilities and occupational supports, although she acknowledged that other fields have broader, less specialized training.

• Chairman Van Orden restated his concern that education requirements may be limiting hiring and called for a review of these standards. He committed to continued oversight, addressing potential fraud, and ensuring clearer funding lines between VR&E services and adaptive housing.

• Ranking Member Pappas broadly agreed on the challenges discussed, acknowledging progress in locations like San Diego, and emphasized the need for more staff to reduce wait times and improve service quality. He reiterated his commitment to supporting VA in staffing efforts and ensuring that veterans’ satisfaction and trust in the program remain central to oversight efforts.

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