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“Hearing to Consider Pending Legislation”

Senate Veterans Affairs Committee Hearing

March 11, 2025 (recording here)

HEARING INFORMATION

Witnesses & Written Testimony (linked) (Panel One):

• Mark R. Engelbaum: Assistant Secretary, Office of Human Resources and Administration / Operations, Security, and Preparedness, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

• Al Montoya: Deputy Chief Operating Officer Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

• Melissa Cohen: Acting Deputy Under Secretary for Policy & Oversight Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

• Kenesha Britton: Assistant Deputy Under Secretary for Field Operations Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

• Kevin Friel: Executive Director, Pension & Fiduciary Service Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

Witnesses & Written Testimony (linked) (Panel Two):

• Cole Lyle: Director, Veterans’ Affairs and Rehabilitation, The American Legion

• Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann: Director, Government and Legislative Affairs, Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors

• Patrick Murray: Director, National Legislative Service, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States

Keywords mentioned:

• Workforce reform, budget, employee layoffs, veteran care, survivors, contracts, Inspector General, efficiency, benefits, hiring freeze

IN THEIR WORDS

OPENING STATEMENTS FROM THE COMMITTEE

• Chairman Jerry Moran discussed the 15 bills under consideration, mentioning recent discussions about reforms at the VA and the need for strategic workforce planning. He said that changes to VA policy and personnel must be conducted transparently, with coordination between Congress, stakeholders, and veteran organizations. The Chairman stated that he is working on legislation to ensure the VA’s workforce planning follows a structured model, and he looks forward to VA Secretary Doug Collins testifying before the Committee on efforts to improve efficiency and healthcare for veterans.

• Ranking Member Richard Blumenthal criticized the absence of Secretary Collins, whom he believed should have been present to answer urgent concerns about the VA workforce crisis. He strongly condemned the recent terminations of VA employees, calling them cruel and damaging to veterans’ care. The Ranking Member announced that he would introduce the Putting Veterans First Act to rescind all recent firings, reinstate VA employees, and ensure future terminations are based on performance rather than political agendas. He warned that without immediate action, veterans’ healthcare and benefits would suffer, calling the situation a "five-alarm fire" for the VA.

SUMMARY OF KEY POINTS (PANEL ONE)

• Mr. Mark Engelbaum affirmed the VA’s general support for much of the proposed legislation but requested amendments to certain bills. He specifically mentioned the department’s support for the Restore VA Accountability Act and the Veterans Assuring Critical Care Expansions to Support Service Members (ACCESS) Act, stating that these would enhance accountability and improve access to care. Mr. Engelbaum acknowledged legal challenges in implementing previous accountability measures and expressed a willingness to collaborate with the Committee to refine legislation. He also discussed the VA’s positions on various bills, including those addressing scheduling improvements, veteran mental health, and survivor benefits, calling for amendments and funding considerations.

• Chairman Moran asked about the Love Lives On Act and why the responsibility falls on surviving spouses to notify the VA of their remarriage, which can result in overpayments and debt. Mr. Engelbaum responded that when the VA receives notification of remarriage, a claim is created and placed into the backlog. He acknowledged that the VA is exploring automation and process improvements to expedite such cases.

• The Chairman then asked whether the VA had taken additional steps to inform surviving spouses of their eligibility for educational benefits following the passage of the Elizabeth Dole Act. Ms. Kenesha Britton replied that the VA conducts survivor outreach events that include information on education and survivor benefits, incorporating recent legislative changes.

• Chairman Moran then asked if the VA would provide technical assistance in refining the ACCESS Act. Mr. Engelbaum confirmed that the department would work with the Committee to improve the bill.

• Ranking Member Blumenthal pressed the witnesses on whether the VA would support the Putting Veterans First Act. Mr. Engelbaum responded that the VA would review the bill once it was available but could not commit to supporting it without a full evaluation.

• Ranking Member Blumenthal then confronted Mr. Engelbaum about the VA’s recent firings of 2,400 employees and the planned elimination of 80,000 more jobs, arguing that these cuts were made without proper analysis. He demanded written documentation on the methodology behind these decisions. Mr. Engelbaum claimed that the VA was conducting an ongoing analysis over the next three to four months and offered to personally brief the Committee. 

• The Ranking Member accused the VA of implementing a "fire now, plan later" approach, stating that no clear methodology or metrics had been provided. When he asked for specific data on job losses in departments such as the Office of General Counsel, Equal Employment Opportunity Staff, and Human Resources, Mr. Engelbaum admitted he did not have those numbers.

• Sen. Tommy Tuberville referenced a VA Inspector General report highlighting millions in benefit fraud within the fiduciary program. He asked why artificial intelligence (AI) technologies had not been implemented to combat fraud. Mr. Engelbaum agreed that technology upgrades were needed and said that the VA was reviewing new systems to enhance accountability. Sen. Tuberville asked if he would personally follow up on fraud prevention companies that had reached out to him, to which Mr. Engelbaum committed to doing so.

• Sen. Mazie Hirono criticized the mass firings across federal agencies, including 2,400 employees from the VA and the planned reduction of 80,000 additional positions. She asked whether these firings were based on performance evaluations. Mr. Engelbaum responded that he could not discuss specifics due to ongoing litigation, which Sen. Hirono dismissed as an unacceptable excuse. She argued that the administration was creating chaos by cutting staff while simultaneously trying to hire 300,000 new employees and questioned how the VA could function effectively under such conditions.

• Sen. Bill Cassidy referenced the VetPAC Act, which would establish an independent commission to oversee VA operations, similar to how MedPAC and MACPAC oversee Medicare and Medicaid. He questioned why the VA’s written testimony suggested that such oversight could impede VA operations. Mr. Engelbaum initially argued that additional reviews could disrupt patient care, but Sen. Cassidy pointed out that the VA’s quadrennial review process did not disrupt services. Mr. Engelbaum ultimately agreed that the VA supported the VetPAC Act but wanted to ensure it did not overlap with existing reviews.

• Sen. Maggie Hassan criticized the planned firing of 80,000 VA employees and asked Mr. Engelbaum whether he could guarantee that the reductions would not increase wait times for veterans, delay claims processing, or affect hospital cleanliness and safety. Mr. Engelbaum avoided providing a direct guarantee and instead reiterated that the VA was undergoing a detailed review process to ensure that resources were focused on veteran care.

• Sen. Hassan went a step further, arguing that the VA was announcing a specific number of job cuts without having completed its analysis. She also referenced President Trump’s 2023 promise to build a full-service VA hospital in New Hampshire and questioned whether resources would be allocated to fulfill that commitment. Mr. Engelbaum responded that the VA's goal was to focus resources on veteran care. Sen. Hassan promised that she would be watching closely to ensure that staffing levels met veterans' needs.

• Sen. Angus King questioned the 600 VA contracts that had been recently eliminated and expressed frustration that the Committee had not received any information about the nature of those contracts. He suspected that they covered mental health services, radiology, and hospital maintenance. Sen. King demanded transparency and requested a full list of the terminated contracts, stating that withholding this information was an insult to the Committee. Mr. Engelbaum acknowledged the concern and committed to bringing the request back to the VA.

• Sen. King also pointed out that firing 80,000 employees would reduce the VA budget by only 1.2%, challenging the claim that the cuts were necessary for fiscal responsibility. He argued that the approach resembled using a chainsaw instead of a scalpel, calling the mass firings arbitrary and damaging.

• Sen. Jim Banks asked Mr. Engelbaum if he believed that the VA was too bureaucratic, to which Mr. Engelbaum responded that the entire federal government was bureaucratic and that the VA could create efficiencies. Sen. Banks then asked how the Restore VA Accountability Act would improve workforce performance. Mr. Engelbaum said that allowing supervisors more authority to discipline underperforming employees would improve morale, noting that bad employees bring down the performance of their colleagues.

• Sen. Banks explained that external provider scheduling (EPS), a provision in Chairman Moran’s bill, could reduce appointment scheduling times from 30 minutes to 7 minutes. He argued that this scheduling bill combined with Sen. Hassan’s internal scheduling improvements would result in significant efficiency gains for veterans seeking care. Mr. Al Montoya confirmed that this would reduce wait times for community care and benefit veterans.

• Sen. Banks then turned to fraudulent claims agents who charge veterans illegal fees to assist with benefit claims. He noted that the VA currently lacks enforcement authority beyond issuing cease-and-desist orders, allowing bad actors to change business names and continue scamming veterans. Mr. Kevin Friel advocated for stronger legal measures to prosecute fraudulent claims agents.

• Sen. Ruben Gallego expressed deep concern over the termination of contracts supporting the National Center for PTSD, a globally recognized leader in PTSD research and treatment. He questioned how the VA could justify eliminating such a crucial program, given that PTSD treatment is essential for veterans’ mental health. Mr. Montoya assured him that contract reversals were possible and that the VA would review the decision.

• Sen. Gallego also pointed out that the VA PACT Act Enterprise Management Office, which helps process burn pit-related claims, had been defunded. He asked how this would not negatively impact veterans seeking benefits under the PACT Act. Mr. Engelbaum stated that the VA was not stopping services but suggested that some outsourced services may be moved in-house. Sen. Gallego remained skeptical and demanded further written justification for these cuts.

• Sen. Bernie Sanders presented VA workforce statistics, showing that there were over 30,000 vacancies in key positions, including doctors, nurses, social workers, and custodians. He questioned whether arbitrarily firing 83,000 employees could be considered a "detailed and thoughtful review", as Mr. Engelbaum had previously described. Mr. Engelbaum insisted that the VA was conducting a four-month workforce analysis to determine where staffing reductions should occur.

• Sen. Sanders referenced a statement from the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) opposing the mass firings and announced that he would introduce a resolution urging the VA to reconsider the cuts. He also advocated for more aggressive outreach to inform veterans about their benefits and argued that staffing should be increasing, not decreasing.

• Ranking Member Blumenthal accused the administration of creating chaos in the VA, stating that the approach "sinks the ship while we rearrange the deck chairs". He also criticized President Trump and Elon Musk’s involvement in VA policy, claiming their anti-veteran actions were harming the workforce and veteran care.

• Chairman Moran clarified that the Restore VA Accountability Act was about ensuring high-quality care for veterans by removing employees who commit fraud or negligence. He also called for reinstating the VA Inspector General, who had previously been a key partner in identifying inefficiencies within the department.

• The Chairman asked the witnesses to clarify whether reducing 80,000 positions was an actual goal or just a planning figure. Mr. Engelbaum explained that 80,000 was an aggressive starting point for the workforce analysis but admitted that the final number could be lower. Chairman Moran stressed that the VA’s goal should not be based on hitting a predetermined number but rather on determining the staffing levels necessary to effectively serve veterans.

SUMMARY OF KEY POINTS (PANEL TWO)

• Mr. Cole Lyle claimed that while the Legion supports many of the proposed bills, their implementation must consider cost and staffing demands. He highlighted the importance of transparency in recent VA policy changes and urged the Committee to include veterans service organizations (VSOs) in the legislative process.

• Ms. Ashlynne Haycock-Lohmann voiced strong support for the Love Lives On Act, which aims to allow surviving spouses to remarry without losing benefits. She also advocated for the Caring for Survivors Act, which would raise Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) to align with other federal survivor benefits. She urged Congress to implement stronger oversight on predatory claims consultants and to support legislation that ensures proper assistance for military survivors.

• Mr. Patrick Murray stressed the need for accountability within the VA, supporting the removal of underperforming employees but warning against arbitrary firings as cost-cutting measures. He endorsed the ACCESS Act, which aims to enhance the VA’s community care program, claiming that both direct VA care and community care should be adequately funded. Mr. Murray also supported the Veterans’ Claims Act, which introduces protections against predatory claims consultants while maintaining veterans’ choice for claims assistance. He called for a reasonable fee cap on claims assistance services to prevent the financial exploitation of veterans.

• Chairman Moran expressed concern about the VA’s classification of mental health residential rehabilitation programs and asked witnesses to describe how the VA’s actions in regard to residential care negatively impacted veterans and their organizations. Mr. Murray shared a personal story about his wife, who struggled to access a mental health treatment facility of her choice. He emphasized that veterans who seek help and are turned away may never try again, making access to appropriate residential care a life-or-death matter. Mr. Lyle echoed this concern, stating that these programs were crucial to the ACCESS Act and would save lives. Ms. Haycock-Lohmann added that access to mental health care was a life-saving measure. She shared her personal experience of losing her mother, an Air Force veteran, to suicide and pointed out that while her mother had access to mental health treatment under TRICARE, veterans often do not have the same level of access through the VA.

• Chairman Moran asked how codifying the ACCESS Act would benefit veterans and ensure consistency in care delivery. Mr. Lyle said that the VA MISSION Act’s standards were regulatory rather than statutory, leading to inconsistencies in how local VA medical centers inform veterans of their care options. He explained that codifying these access standards would ensure that a veteran’s decision with their provider remains the top priority and that access to community care would be more transparent and reliable.

• Ranking Member Blumenthal asked if any witnesses supported substituting community care for VA healthcare, effectively privatizing the VA. Mr. Murray stated that community care is VA care, as it is funded and coordinated by the VA. He acknowledged the need for improvements in both VA direct care and community care referrals and noted that veterans were frustrated with delays in both systems.

• The Ranking Member asked if any of the present organizations had met with Secretary Collins regarding the planned layoffs of 80,000 VA employees and what they had communicated. Mr. Lyle stated that they had met with Secretary Collins before the memo announcing layoffs was released. Afterward, they shared their concerns about the potential loss of mission-critical healthcare and benefits staff. Mr. Murray noted that the initial 2,400 layoffs had already impacted care and benefits. He expressed skepticism about the Secretary’s assurances that larger cuts would not have negative consequences.

• Ranking Member Blumenthal outlined his Putting Veterans First Act, which would restore fired veteran employees, establish clearer termination standards, and include spouses and survivors in employment protections. Mr. Murray expressed interest but said he needed to review the full text. He stressed that understanding who was fired and what their roles were was critical before advocating for reinstatement. Mr. Lyle similarly noted that the Legion needed to review the draft to ensure alignment with their policy resolutions. However, he appreciated the intent of the legislation.

• Chairman Moran asked Ms. Haycock-Lohmann how many surviving spouses had spoken out in favor of the Love Lives On Act, particularly those previously afraid to speak due to fear of losing benefits. Ms. Haycock-Lohmann highlighted the Dole Act’s provision that stopped arbitrary investigations into surviving spouses for perceived relationships. She explained that before this, widows and widowers feared losing benefits if they were accused of “holding oneself out to be married.”

• Chairman Moran asked why some policymakers resisted allowing remarried spouses to retain their benefits. Ms. Haycock-Lohmann stated that most opposition came from the Armed Services Committee, which viewed military survivor benefits as a contract that ended upon remarriage. She argued that military spouses often do not have independent retirement benefits, as they have sacrificed careers to support their service member. Surviving spouses, she underscored, should not be forced to choose between financial stability and personal happiness.

• The Chairman asked why some surviving spouses faced VA debt collection when their benefits should have been adjusted after remarriage. Ms. Haycock-Lohmann explained that surviving spouses often believe they have properly reported their remarriage, yet VA processing delays can take years. In the meantime, they continue receiving payments they assumed were correct, only to be hit with unexpected debt collection notices. She said that many of these survivors are already financially vulnerable, making sudden repayment demands devastating.

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